tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post8037740441786131170..comments2023-04-03T09:33:55.039-06:00Comments on Ramblings of Sheldon: Can You Sincerely Believe In Something If You Have Never Doubted or Questioned It? Sheldon Cooperhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-65542177654110374232014-02-02T15:40:32.593-06:002014-02-02T15:40:32.593-06:00I was thinking about this a few years back and men...I was thinking about this a few years back and mentioned to some friends that, "If you have never truly questioned what you believe, I would question whether you truly believe it."<br /><br />There are so many arguments out there, and so many of them futile, because no one is listening to the other side. Pride leads a lot of people to refuse to listen to alternatives, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, because they fear that to do so is to concede defeat. A good debate isn't about winning, but leads to a deeper understanding for all parties.D. A. Simpsonhttps://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1021878-if-you-have-never-truly-questioned-what-you-believe-inoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-10365277196817106802013-11-02T15:45:45.307-06:002013-11-02T15:45:45.307-06:00My point in saying atheism is a form of fundamenta...My point in saying atheism is a form of fundamentalism was to say that it is a narrowly black and white ideology.kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-63082038055502980842013-10-31T10:50:55.684-06:002013-10-31T10:50:55.684-06:00Hadn't thought of it that way before, if you v...Hadn't thought of it that way before, if you view yourself as worthless, then you start to treat other people the same way.Sheldon Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-56037138748188906682013-10-31T10:16:12.360-06:002013-10-31T10:16:12.360-06:00I've had experience with such Worm Theology. ...I've had experience with such Worm Theology. Paradoxically, it comes from a motive to glorify God; unfortunately, it can only glorify God by cutting down everything and everyone else in a Zero-Sum Game. "Since God had to have the greatest importance, nothing else could be allowed to have ANY importance." Never mind the theme throughout the Bible of Divine abundance -- "God Don' Play That Zero-Sum Game."<br /><br />The image such Zero-Sum Gaming brings to mind is Lord Farquar from <i>Shrek</i> (an achondrophlasic dwarf with severe Small Man Syndrome) decreeing that all his subjects shall have their legs amputated so nobody can stand taller than himself.<br /><br />And the effect on those who hold to Worm Theology: If you are nothing and worthless, why should you treat anyone else as if they were worth something?Headless Unicorn Guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-73299649828606895662013-10-31T10:15:47.668-06:002013-10-31T10:15:47.668-06:00So Unicorn Guy is a brony? Interesting.... ;)So Unicorn Guy is a brony? Interesting.... ;)Sheldonhttp://ramblingsofsheldon.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-20961118292128741872013-10-31T10:10:50.130-06:002013-10-31T10:10:50.130-06:00If the term fits...
There are a LOT of preachers ...If the term fits...<br /><br />There are a LOT of preachers and churches and Christians out there who act straight out of the INGSOC playbook. There seems to be this dark undercurrent of control-freak in Christianese culture where "Praise the LORD" becomes NewNewspeak for "Long Live Big Brother".<br /><br />Somebody in local fandom definied heresy as "criminal misrepresentation of God", and if God/Christ is NOT a Cosmic-level Big Brother in the INGSOC sense, that's what's taking place.<br /><br />An analogy in Bronydom is the various fan works regarding Princess Celestia, the My Little Pony world's benevolent, approachable, and even playful god-figure. For every fanfic lament of how Celestia would like to just roll in the grass being a pony or walk among her little ponies incognito as another pony (without having them bow and scrape on their bellies before her), there are grimdarks and crapsacks about her as Trollestia (where her sense of humor becomes dark and cruel), Molestia (a divine sexual predator), or Tyrantlestia the Impaler (self-descriptive, hiding behind a mask of benevolence).Headless Unicorn Guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-72342770325729967342013-10-30T14:34:46.825-06:002013-10-30T14:34:46.825-06:00@Headless Unicorn Guy
You should start a blog, I&...@Headless Unicorn Guy<br /><br />You should start a blog, I'm surprised you haven't already, that would be a blog I would definitely follow.Sheldonhttp://ramblingsofsheldon.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-71144048958001098452013-10-30T14:29:26.892-06:002013-10-30T14:29:26.892-06:00@ Headless Unicorn Guy
I understand what you mean...@ Headless Unicorn Guy<br /><br />I understand what you mean, I wish I had time to expound more on what I was going to say about that, but I'm constantly getting interrupted right now.<br /><br />I think some people in the gun control movement (who hate me for my moderate views on that subject), and some asepcts of the feminist movement, prove your point quite well.<br /><br /> Check out Freethought Blogs, especially PZ Myers, Greta Christina, Richard Carrier and "Surly Amy" as well as the Atheism + forums to see what I mean about more extreme aspects of feminism, feminism in and of itself, I don't take issue with.Sheldonhttp://ramblingsofsheldon.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-54199948574131363002013-10-30T14:00:57.338-06:002013-10-30T14:00:57.338-06:00@KC Bob, is that really any better in substance th...@KC Bob, is that really any better in substance than the "atheism is a religion" argument? There are are some people in atheism that do go too far in their rhetoric, but in some cases, especially when it comes to extremist branches of Islam, they don't go far enough in my opinion.<br /><br />I do grow weary of the old "YOU'RE STUPID!!!!" shouting matches, they have no purpose, and accomplish nothing. I would much rather debate theology and philosophy, and out abusive groups that cause real world harm to people, either by their doctrines, or an abusive culture, full of pedophilia, encouraging spousal/child abuse, etc. Exposing and shaming groups like that is a worth while goal. There's an atheist blogger on Twitter that does the whole "you're stupid" routine constantly, and I'm probably going to unfollow her, I don't appreciate very much.<br /><br />As far as atheism being a religion, supposedly, all atheism is, is a lack of belief in a god. Nothing more, nothing less, it's the very antithesis of a religion, by definition. Some people have tried to make it more than that, and they have faced a massive backlash, and rightly so. <br /><br />There's more divisions in the atheist movement than most people think, both in the way they respond to religion, and in their political beliefs. <br /><br />Especially in politics, there's a lot of division, traditional American liberals, libertarians, ananrchists, socialists, and even a few conservative atheists, believe it or not (look up the blog Bitchspot). Sheldonhttp://ramblingsofsheldon.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-78498769493561027252013-10-30T13:32:08.394-06:002013-10-30T13:32:08.394-06:00Ha! doubleplusduckspeak! Another George Orwell fan...Ha! doubleplusduckspeak! Another George Orwell fan in the house! (high five)SHeldonhttp://ramblingsofsheldon.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-77078942469427908752013-10-30T10:55:44.839-06:002013-10-30T10:55:44.839-06:00"In what ways do you think that more liberal ..."In what ways do you think that more liberal Christians act like fundamentalists?"<br /><br />Adherence to their Social Justice agenda du jour, just like Fundies adhere to their Personal Salvation agenda. Both involve trying to bend reality to agree with Ideological Dogma, with an "If you're not with Us, you're one of THEM!" tribal identity.<br /><br />And Jesus said He "came to set us free"? The Pharisee party of Rabbis of Jesus' time was adhering to Torah (and what later became Talmud & Mishnah) to the point of absurdity, oppression, and one-upmanship, and Jesus was constantly calling them on it.Headless Unicorn Guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-84822759670695467132013-10-30T10:51:40.723-06:002013-10-30T10:51:40.723-06:00Faith as in "The substance of things hoped fo...Faith as in "The substance of things hoped for" or FAITH! as in "denial of all physical evidence not backing up Purity of Ideology 1000%"?Headless Unicorn Guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-64318669523810206052013-10-30T10:49:38.829-06:002013-10-30T10:49:38.829-06:00"Because their faith has never had to face th..."Because their faith has never had to face the hard questions of life before, you end up with young students that know their faith well, and can repeat all the lines and canned arguments...."<br /><br />doubleplusduckspeak: Reciting the Party Line without engaging any neuron above the brainstem. It's almost a distinguishing characteristic of Fundies. Just their duckspeak is Bible verses instead of Inevitable Marxist-Leninist Dialectic of History or Atlas Shrugged.Headless Unicorn Guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-65023621883414599302013-10-29T16:21:44.881-06:002013-10-29T16:21:44.881-06:00I get that Sheldon. My point is that there are fun...I get that Sheldon. My point is that there are fundamentalists/extremists on both sides of any ideology or theology. In my view atheism is a form of fundamentalism.kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-22594702252151667842013-10-29T09:13:36.450-06:002013-10-29T09:13:36.450-06:00Obviously, I wouldn't agree with Christianity ...Obviously, I wouldn't agree with Christianity in any form theologically,but I like more liberal/moderate Christians, I have quite a few Christian bloggers in my blogroll here (you included). It's the fundamentalists I can't stand.Sheldon Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-62105003957951698622013-10-28T11:15:05.236-06:002013-10-28T11:15:05.236-06:00I was not really speaking of liberal vs conservati...I was not really speaking of liberal vs conservative Christians but about believers vs those who reject faith. Generally speaking, one group often finds a way to accept faith in grayer terms while the other (for whatever reason) cannot see gray. In a sense, some reject one form of fundamentalism (a narrow theology) for another fundamentalism (a narrow atheist ideology) and never really consider a grayer non-fundamentalist theology/ideology.<br /><br />Regarding your question, I think that the extremes on both (black and white) theological ends are intolerant of each other and act that way. IMO, you only find real love and acceptance in the grayer thinkers.kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-2834854784179917702013-10-28T09:52:25.732-06:002013-10-28T09:52:25.732-06:00Questioning either leads to a loss of faith, or a ...Questioning either leads to a loss of faith, or a much stronger faith, but I don't think it can be a genuine faith without it. Faith without questioning at some point becomes a mindless repetition of doctrines that have been taught to you. Thanks for stopping by, Jonny.Sheldon Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-88399947162745475772013-10-28T09:51:03.252-06:002013-10-28T09:51:03.252-06:00In what ways do you think that more liberal Christ...In what ways do you think that more liberal Christians act like fundamentalists? Sheldon Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-49685175725818880672013-10-28T09:14:07.676-06:002013-10-28T09:14:07.676-06:00Been in A/G, Vineyard and independent Pentecostal/...Been in A/G, Vineyard and independent Pentecostal/Charismatic churches. My attractions involved both my senses (i.e. feeling the presence of God) and my inclination to think in black and white terms. As I matured, and life happened, I began to evolve into a grayer thinker. While some threw faith away because of their black and white approach I allowed my thinking to evolve and become grayer. As a result I think that my faith is more vibrant and my readings of the scriptures more interesting. <br /><br />As far as fundamentalism goes I think many just flip the coin and become a left leaning fundamentalist instead of a right leaning one. For some it is simply easier to keep the narrow black and white thinking (albeit focused in another direction) than to embrace a grayer approach. kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-64311792005534023262013-10-28T08:59:20.703-06:002013-10-28T08:59:20.703-06:00I agree with you Sheldon. I don't think it cou...I agree with you Sheldon. I don't think it counts as belief if you haven't seriously considered the possibility that it might not be true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-54320253581848793812013-10-28T08:38:08.983-06:002013-10-28T08:38:08.983-06:00"The best education is not one that teaches c..."The best education is not one that teaches certainty---but one that helps embrace uncertainty."<br /><br />Love it, CM the philosopher. :)Sheldon Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-85183409926267348242013-10-28T08:37:29.983-06:002013-10-28T08:37:29.983-06:00They are probably just rehashing arguments from th...They are probably just rehashing arguments from their favorite ministers/theologians. I've heard of people trying to debate types like that, and searching the text of what they are saying on Google, and they are actually copying verbatim from people like William Lane Craig, John Piper, etc, without attributing the source.Sheldon Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-77852576785376572252013-10-28T08:35:33.226-06:002013-10-28T08:35:33.226-06:00Christian fundamentalism teaches that we are nothi...Christian fundamentalism teaches that we are nothing without god, we are worthless without him, and it's one of the most toxic teachings of that mentality in so many different ways. If you think you are nothing, worthless, and that only god knows better, than it can lead you to think that something is wrong with you if you start questioning. Sheldon Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-61423355743789468962013-10-28T08:33:58.757-06:002013-10-28T08:33:58.757-06:00Great posts, I read both. So you were a fundamenta...Great posts, I read both. So you were a fundamentalist Pentecostal? I've had experience with that world, My family was in Assembly of God churches until I was about 11/12 years old.Sheldon Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7477053899127840506.post-11588952091955330112013-10-28T08:29:18.168-06:002013-10-28T08:29:18.168-06:00I guess when faith runs out in a person who has ne...I guess when faith runs out in a person who has never seriously questioned, then the foundation crumbles.Sheldon Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17660822618786253558noreply@blogger.com